Gameday: Minnesota Wild vs Edmonton Oilers, 10/16/09

OldTimeHockey wrote:

This loss isn't about injuries or a new style. Last I checked, we weren't missing any defensemen to injuries. They're healthy. This bullshit of a game is due to their clusterfucks...it's their OWN doing. It ain't the system. They just have their heads up their asses.

Some of the worst d-zone play I've ever seen.

Dee Oh Cee wrote:

This is embarrassing

Yep.

Want to join the "Fire Richards Club"?

Why do the Wild always send in a centering pass when nobody is crashing the net?

TaLoN wrote:

OldTimeHockey wrote:

This loss isn't about injuries or a new style. Last I checked, we weren't missing any defensemen to injuries. They're healthy. This bullshit of a game is due to their clusterfucks...it's their OWN doing. It ain't the system. They just have their heads up their asses.

Some of the worst d-zone play I've ever seen.

Exactly! It's no longer the d-zone, because there's no defense what so ever.

To the fans AND players (there were enough of them) who were looking forward to having JL's leash removed, I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!! I ain't saying change is bad, but people wanted a 180. Some players wanted more freedom thinking they'd be fine. Now look at them. They suck. And they'll probably blame the coach instead just like they always have. Hell, tonight it's not even the system. It's guys free wheeling simply because they can and making bonehead mistakes.

OTH:

I don't disagree with you at all. However, your statement is somewhat contradictory.

It sounds like you are blaming the players and I agree, that there are players in particular that are stinking up the ice something fierce. However, I view that as the coaching staff's responsibility to motivate and control the players.

We have a decent roster filled with players that should be able to make things happen. Nothing is happening except bad turn overs, spotty play, bad line changes, and weak goal tending.

In the pyramid of woes, I put Richards at the top, followed by the other assistants and then the players.

Can you imagine Jacques Lemaire sitting behind the bench with the current roster looking like a sad little puppy dog after a "lack of compete" turnover? He would have been LIVID. He would have been chewing his juicy fruit something fierce and ripping the players up one side and down the other. Instead, we have Richards standing there looking like a smacked-with-a-newspaper puppy and Barr sitting there with a vacant ass expression on his mouth breathing face.

Sorry guys... I don't like the new coaching staff and I am missing Lemaire something horrible. Up tempo play isn't working. Slow the fucking games down to match the pace of your roster instead of continually asking those that CAN wheel to cover for those that can't. That's where a lot of the player mistakes are coming from... Burns, Schultz and Johnsson jumping into the play because the forwards are slow asses that can't get into it.

You didn't tell me so, though. I always agree with you.

*laughs*

In summary... GO BACK TO THE TRAP YOU TARDS!

*chuckles*

Well, you miss Lemaire... fine. Guess what though, he's gone and he's not coming back. This new coach was handed a craptastic roster with some major holes in every area, and was asked to impliment his uptempo style with a roster that is not capable of uptempo play.

I said going in this is not a good team, and these aren;t the right players for the system... HELL even JL said these aren't the right players for it (though most on the WMB just claimed sour grapes from JL), now everyone is seeing, these aren't the right players for it.

I can't blame Richards for trying to do what he's been asked to do without players to do it with. At some point he and his boss Fletch, will have to concede that this roster isn't completely ready for the uptempo game, and will have to adjust their style accordingly.

You can't give a coach 2 weeks and say "ok you suck" when he hasn't been given the tools to even succeed with yet IMO.

sqare wrote:

OTH:

I don't disagree with you at all. However, your statement is somewhat contradictory.

It sounds like you are blaming the players and I agree, that there are players in particular that are stinking up the ice something fierce. However, I view that as the coaching staff's responsibility to motivate and control the players.

We have a decent roster filled with players that should be able to make things happen. Nothing is happening except bad turn overs, spotty play, bad line changes, and weak goal tending.

In the pyramid of woes, I put Richards at the top, followed by the other assistants and then the players.

Can you imagine Jacques Lemaire sitting behind the bench with the current roster looking like a sad little puppy dog after a "lack of compete" turnover? He would have been LIVID. He would have been chewing his juicy fruit something fierce and ripping the players up one side and down the other. Instead, we have Richards standing there looking like a smacked-with-a-newspaper puppy and Barr sitting there with a vacant ass expression on his mouth breathing face.

Sorry guys... I don't like the new coaching staff and I am missing Lemaire something horrible. Up tempo play isn't working. Slow the fucking games down to match the pace of your roster instead of continually asking those that CAN wheel to cover for those that can't. That's where a lot of the player mistakes are coming from... Burns, Schultz and Johnsson jumping into the play because the forwards are slow asses that can't get into it.

You didn't tell me so, though. I always agree with you.

*laughs*

In summary... GO BACK TO THE TRAP YOU TARDS!

*chuckles*

Yeah. Sorry about that. Went a little KeithAction on ya.

Thing is though, Lemaire was blamed a lot last year for not getting his players to listen. People blamed him saying that it was the coaches job to light a fire under them. That's when they suggested that the players were no longer listening and that it was time for a new coach. So the players get what they want....a new coach. Yet look at them now. Sometimes a coach can only do so much. Richards already had closed-door meetings. He's called guys out, and benched Havlat twice. At some point, it's gotta be on the players. The coach can't hold their hands out there. He can't constantly bench or scratch guys, because we have too many injured. It's up to the players. They need to stop pointing fingers. They've gotten their way, yet all they do is take advantage and blame someone else.

The injuries and system change "should" be a factor, but there is NO excuse for what happened in the d-zone tonight. Every system requires defense. These guys KNOW how to play it, yet refused. They didn't act like professionals. Hell, they didn't act like grown men.

I'm with you Talon. New coach, GM, system, and some pretty major injuries don't make matters very easy. I actually thought we looked ok 1st and 2nd considering the above and Edmonton looked decent tonight. Our biggest problem going forward is getting those uptempo players to come here. I'm afraid we're looking at a few years of this. Not much to trade and nothing in the system prospect wise. Five year plan here we come.

Jagged Ice wrote:

I'm with you Talon. New coach, GM, system, and some pretty major injuries don't make matters very easy. I actually thought we looked ok 1st and 2nd considering the above and Edmonton looked decent tonight. Our biggest problem going forward is getting those uptempo players to come here. I'm afraid we're looking at a few years of this. Not much to trade and nothing in the system prospect wise. Five year plan here we come.

Kind of funny.....some claimed those up-tempo players wouldn't come here because of JL. Now, most up-tempo guys will avoid us due to major suckage.

Just found this board...

This team isn't an elite team but it should be able to compete with the Avs, LA, Oilers, Yotes all those 8-15.

This team isn't putting enough effort. They seem so lost most of the time. I mean if Koivu looks lost.... Houston, we have a major problem.

TaLoN wrote:

I can't blame Richards for trying to do what he's been asked to do without players to do it with. At some point he and his boss Fletch, will have to concede that this roster isn't completely ready for the uptempo game, and will have to adjust their style accordingly.

You can't give a coach 2 weeks and say "ok you suck" when he hasn't been given the tools to even succeed with yet IMO.

If you and I both saw that his new style wasn't going to work with this roster, why the fuck hasn't he? Why the hell didn't he adjust things during the pre-season when he saw, slow slower and sloth out on the ice together? Have a fucking press conference and say; "You know what, up tempo isn't going to work. Let's do a puck possession 1-2-2 instead (like Detroit)."

Let's face it, our roster is (in terms of speed) more like Detroit than San Jose yet we are trying to mimic the San Jose system?

Our roster isn't that bad, it just doesn't match this mysterious "system".

We have plenty of guys that have great puck control, they just aren't fast...

I think I am channeling KeithActon as well.

I'm just pissed right now.

hockeygirl101 wrote:

Just found this board...

This team isn't an elite team but it should be able to compete with the Avs, LA, Oilers, Yotes all those 8-15.

This team isn't putting enough effort. They seem so lost most of the time. I mean if Koivu looks lost.... Houston, we have a major problem.

Welcome!

Agree, they CAN compete with those teams, but not when their D-men play like they did tonight. They played so poorly positionally and fundamentally in their own zone tonight it was crazy! You can't blame that on the coaches either, that's simply players not executing.

There was nothing "system related" that caused any of the D-zone breakdowns, it was plain fundamental brainfarts. That last turnover by Schultz was simply embarrassing!

sqare wrote:

If you and I both saw that his new style wasn't going to work with this roster, why the fuck hasn't he? Why the hell didn't he adjust things during the pre-season when he saw, slow slower and sloth out on the ice together? Have a fucking press conference and say; "You know what, up tempo isn't going to work. Let's do a puck possession 1-2-2 instead (like Detroit)."

Let's face it, our roster is (in terms of speed) more like Detroit than San Jose yet we are trying to mimic the San Jose system?

Our roster isn't that bad, it just doesn't match this mysterious "system".

We have plenty of guys that have great puck control, they just aren't fast...

The world isn't so simple. He came in with a mandate from both owner and GM for this "system" that is supposedly more entertaining. He does have a boss, and if his boss wants this system that's what he has to give him. That's why I said BOTH he and Fletch have to come to the realization that this roster isn't ready for it yet. They BOTH need to agree on a compromised adjustment. I don't think Richards can just tell Fletch it ain't going to work at this point.

I will also disagree with you on a point, this IS a bad roster! JL had the ability to hide weaknesses of his players, something very few coaches can do. Those weaknesses are shining and shining brightly. This roster without JL, but still in the old system would not have come close to where they were last season, let alone in a new system.

This is a very bad roster that needs an infusion of real talent that just isn't available in the system thanks to DR.

hockeygirl101 wrote:

Just found this board...

This team isn't an elite team but it should be able to compete with the Avs, LA, Oilers, Yotes all those 8-15.

This team isn't putting enough effort. They seem so lost most of the time. I mean if Koivu looks lost.... Houston, we have a major problem.

No kidding. His next blog should be a fun read.

sqare wrote:

I think I am channeling KeithActon as well.

I'm just pissed right now.

You aren't alone. Those who knew this season was gonna be a wash have every right to be pissed. It's one thing to be confused, it's a whole other thing to not care. And some of our best players didn't care tonight. DEFENSE YOU MORONS....REMEMBER HOW TO PLAY DEFENSE!! EVEN THE SHARKS AND WINGS KNOW THAT YOU STILL HAVE TO PLAY DEFENSE!!!

You can blame Schultz for losing the puck but where was Burns? He left his post in the front of the net. He had to scramble back and by then it was too late.

I would be interested in knowing what the defense should look like in Richards' system.

hockeygirl101 wrote:

You can blame Schultz for losing the puck but where was Burns? He left his post in the front of the net. He had to scramble back and by then it was too late.

I would be interested in knowing what the defense should look like in Richards' system.

Actually, Burns was trying to move the puck up ice, and was forced to pass it BACK to Schultz in the first place because Schultz didn't move up ice along with Burns to begin with.

Lack of support on the breakout forced the retreat, and then Schultz turned it over before Burns ever had a chance to follow the pass back.

OldTimeHockey wrote:

Jagged Ice wrote:

I'm with you Talon. New coach, GM, system, and some pretty major injuries don't make matters very easy. I actually thought we looked ok 1st and 2nd considering the above and Edmonton looked decent tonight. Our biggest problem going forward is getting those uptempo players to come here. I'm afraid we're looking at a few years of this. Not much to trade and nothing in the system prospect wise. Five year plan here we come.

Kind of funny.....some claimed those up-tempo players wouldn't come here because of JL. Now, most up-tempo guys will avoid us due to major suckage.

I believe so...for a couple years.

Talon... I will debate the definition of a bad roster with you later, but I agree with you on the points about it needing to come from Richards AND Fletcher. Richards wants us to be San Jose east and Fletcher wants us to be Penguins West. Neither one are going to happen.

On the roster thing, really quick whilst I am tired and half gone mentally...

I just don't see a roster containing Havlat, Koivu, Brunette, Sykora and Nolan as a *bad* roster. I don't see having Burns, Johnsson, Schultz and Zanon on D as a *bad* roster. Sure, we don't have a Kovalchuck/Ovie/Nash etc... But the roster isn't "bad".

I would say the roster is more of a WTF roster when "up-tempo" is the key goal. That and the fact we are still weak on the left, heavy on right and center...

Now, if we were going for the 1-2-2 puck possession style of say... Detroit. The roster would still be weak on the left, but not "bad".

Am I making sense or am I just foggy tired?

sqare wrote:

Talon... I will debate the definition of a bad roster with you later, but I agree with you on the points about it needing to come from Richards AND Fletcher. Richards wants us to be San Jose east and Fletcher wants us to be Penguins West. Neither one are going to happen.

On the roster thing, really quick whilst I am tired and half gone mentally...

I just don't see a roster containing Havlat, Koivu, Brunette, Sykora and Nolan as a *bad* roster. I don't see having Burns, Johnsson, Schultz and Zanon on D as a *bad* roster. Sure, we don't have a Kovalchuck/Ovie/Nash etc... But the roster isn't "bad".

I would say the roster is more of a WTF roster when "up-tempo" is the key goal. That and the fact we are still weak on the left, heavy on right and center...

Now, if we were going for the 1-2-2 puck possession style of say... Detroit. The roster would still be weak on the left, but not "bad".

Am I making sense or am I just foggy tired?

more about richards' line changes
you sound like you want to be heard, how about i quote you so you can be heard again

hockeygirl101 wrote:

You can blame Schultz for losing the puck but where was Burns? He left his post in the front of the net. He had to scramble back and by then it was too late.

I would be interested in knowing what the defense should look like in Richards' system.

Like Burns knows what the hell he is doing. The only reason Carney worked well with him was because Carney was a pylon in front of the net, so he was always in front protecting passing lanes while Burns chased guys all around the offensive zone, whether it be at the left point or right corner.... Yes I just went back a few years to use Carney as an example, as I don't feel Burns has improve at all since that season, and is still a questionable d-man with huge upside. They can blame the injuries/roster for lack of scoring, but the defensive play is unacceptable. A top-10 draft pick surely wouldn't hurt this team moving forward, they just can't afford for it to be another player who is a fringe-NHLer into his early twenties....

I've made my opinion known about Bruno. He's not a top line player on a true contender IMO.

Nolan had a CAREER YEAR last year if you look at the previous 5 seasons. To expect him to match that is insane. Koivu, Havlat, and Sykora are the only top 6 forwards this team even has IMO if it was to be a true contender.

As for D, Burns has yet to return to form, Schultz looks lost, Zanon... not sure WHAT the hell he's been thinking since he got here, tons of mistakes at both ends. Johnsson is the only true D-man we have right now that plays to his cap level.

This team has a lot of "solid" but nothing particularly good on the blueline IMO.

THAT equals a bad roster IMO.